Sonic-class Assault Transport

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Viktor Zukov
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Sonic-class Assault Transport

Post by Viktor Zukov » 2013-09-15 07:41

Designation: Sonic-class Assault Transport
Purpose: Only one military grade assault transport exists, as we seem to have an ever growing need to assault planets due to the ensuing war against the New Republic. It is modular on the interior and can withstand depths of up to 8 Km and safely deploy Aquatic troops and a max of 10 AT-AT Swimmers that fit in the pressurized chamber that allows the troops to exit if underwater.
Application: Assault Transport
Schedule: Image
1-2 weeks assembly of parts
1-2 weeks of integrating core systems
1-2 weeks of testing
1-2 weeks for mass production on assembly lines
Visual Description:

Technical Specifications:
Name/Type: Sonic-class Assault Transport
Designer/Manufacturer: Viktor Zukov/Kuat Drive Yards
Designation: Assault Transport
Crew: 2,000 + 200 Gunners
Length: 700 Meters
Speed: 75 MGLT, 1,000 km/h (1,000 Km/h until at 5 Km in depth then reduced to 750 Km/h)
Hyperdrive: x2
Shield Rating: 4,250 SBD
Hull Rating: 1,100 RU
Weapons: 6 Quad Laser Cannons, 4 General Purpose Launchers
Fighter Complement: None
Troops: 20,000 Stormtroopers, 5,000 Nova Stormtroopers, 150 BUPC, 20 HAT-AAs, 32 Mangar Assault Tanks (Can be reconfigured to support submerged water deployments)
Support Craft: 10 ATR-9 Modular Shuttles (Swapped for 20 Explorer Submergibles, can only be deployed after AT-AT Swimmers have cleared out the pressurized chamber)

Special: Helios, MIST, Stealth Bonded Armour, Ion Engine Baffle
Weaknesses: The lack of fighters means it has no personal escort while entering a planet to make a run and establish a forward operating base. The weapons it has on the ship itself is the only way to clear the area until the troops can safely be deployed.

Projected Upgrades: Faster running speed at deeper depths, and the ability to go deeper.
Last edited by Viktor Zukov on 2014-01-20 16:28, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sonic-class Assault Transport

Post by TyrAnazazi » 2013-11-08 00:57

I see nothing that raises any Red flags to me. I would appreciate it if another mod confirms that the design seems to be in order.
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Re: Sonic-class Assault Transport

Post by Tavish McFini » 2013-11-21 19:47

Guess I should do my job huh?

Alrighty, let's see what we got. Nice pic first off, though I'm always a sucker for pics. :P

700 meter long transport ship? Eggs in one basket much? Why build this versus a lot more, smaller transport vessels?

It has next to no weapons, which is a good start because I was going to inquire how one could justify stuffing that many troops inside a 700 meter long ship when one need look at a Victory II-class Star Destroyer and it's ~14k capacity... Actually, I'm going to point it out anyways by asking the following:

How long could everyone aboard survive for with what the vessel holds in storage? I mean food, water, basic living accomodations. If we're sporting nearly double the people aboard a smaller ship compared to a VSD than, all else being equal, food and water consumption rates will double. I vaguely recall an SWRPG book saying a VSD had consumables for 3 months of steady operation so, this ship would be... 1.5 months?

Speed is pretty peppy, but, looking at other ships in the same size scale, it seems pretty fair.

Shields are slightly above average for a ship that size but I can dismiss that with the lack of weapons. Hull is about average.

Random aside question regarding the 5,000 nova Stormtroopers... How many of these ships do you envision will get built and do we have that many x5,000 nova troops in service that aren't already aboard other vessels of the NIF? Why not just simplify it and say 30,000 Soldiers/Troops/Personnel/other-generally-vague-statement-as-to-not-create-more-confusion-later-on? After all, I imagine a ship like this would also be carrying the necessary support personnel (NCOs, pilots, repair crews, reloading teams, droids, anyone/thing else needed to run a ground operation of such a scale).

Beyond those things, seems like a good idea though I'll ask one last thing: What advantage would deploying, say, five of these offer versus the same number of troops being deployed from the Star Destroyers that would no doubt have to escort these vessels? I know generalized < specialized, but there are times when specialization isn't desirable as well.
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Re: Sonic-class Assault Transport

Post by Viktor Zukov » 2013-11-22 00:50

700 meter long transport ship? Eggs in one basket much? Why build this versus a lot more, smaller transport vessels?
Next smallest transport capship is 750 meters long. So I trimmed 50 meters off and it has better weapons than that! So, quasi moot of a point I’d say. Oh, and did I mention we do have almost all Star Destroyers with MRPs now. So ferry over supplies please! ;)
How long could everyone aboard survive for with what the vessel holds in storage? I mean food, water, basic living accomodations. If we're sporting nearly double the people aboard a smaller ship compared to a VSD than, all else being equal, food and water consumption rates will double. I vaguely recall an SWRPG book saying a VSD had consumables for 3 months of steady operation so, this ship would be... 1.5 months?
Let’s put it this way, it should not be grinding on those supplies. As all of those troops would be on there for 2 weeks at most. That’s counting traveling time there, and how long everyone onboard will be onboard through the length of a full offload of troops.
Random aside question regarding the 5,000 nova Stormtroopers... How many of these ships do you envision will get built and do we have that many x5,000 nova troops in service that aren't already aboard other vessels of the NIF? Why not just simplify it and say 30,000 Soldiers/Troops/Personnel/other-generally-vague-statement-as-to-not-create-more-confusion-later-on? After all, I imagine a ship like this would also be carrying the necessary support personnel (NCOs, pilots, repair crews, reloading teams, droids, anyone/thing else needed to run a ground operation of such a scale).
I would like to think so, as we had started that program IC 2 or 3 CMs ago. So that’s 9 months of training for a group of stormies to be properly trained up to Novatroopers. Also a nice blurb about Novatroopers from their info on them: While not their intended function, the success of the Novatroopers in assault operations and their skill in infiltration tactics also meant they became used for commando missions, often leading Imperial commandos in special operations, particularly infiltration missions. They are distinguished by their gold and black armor. The post-Endor Empire suffered from dwindling numbers of Stormtroopers until Thrawn re-booted the cloning program with again improved quality, plus recruits trained to equal levels. In this environment, Novatroopers became specialist troops in heavy assault and infiltration tactics, with standard Stormtroopers filling the bulk of the similar missions. <-I think they could manage to lead enough of the charge to capture the objective or objectives. As for how many I think will be built, I think we’ll possibly have a revamping of the standard transport choices for 2nd and most certainly 6th will need some. As we’re meant to be a smaller version of 4th, so I would say assault capabilities are needed to swarm back temporarily over run planets in the Galactic North.
Beyond those things, seems like a good idea though I'll ask one last thing: What advantage would deploying, say, five of these offer versus the same number of troops being deployed from the Star Destroyers that would no doubt have to escort these vessels? I know generalized < specialized, but there are times when specialization isn't desirable as well.
Well, they are atmosphere capable. So that will let us dive on in and not have tiny little sub caps flittering in and out all over the place from as high up in the sky. Not to mention, it should be better equipped to be harassed by a wing of fighters than a bunch of sub caps anyways.
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Re: Sonic-class Assault Transport

Post by Tavish McFini » 2013-11-22 14:04

Viktor Zukov wrote:I would like to think so, as we had started that program IC 2 or 3 CMs ago. So that’s 9 months of training for a group of stormies to be properly trained up to Novatroopers. Also a nice blurb about Novatroopers from their info on them: While not their intended function, the success of the Novatroopers in assault operations and their skill in infiltration tactics also meant they became used for commando missions, often leading Imperial commandos in special operations, particularly infiltration missions. They are distinguished by their gold and black armor. The post-Endor Empire suffered from dwindling numbers of Stormtroopers until Thrawn re-booted the cloning program with again improved quality, plus recruits trained to equal levels. In this environment, Novatroopers became specialist troops in heavy assault and infiltration tactics, with standard Stormtroopers filling the bulk of the similar missions. <-I think they could manage to lead enough of the charge to capture the objective or objectives. As for how many I think will be built, I think we’ll possibly have a revamping of the standard transport choices for 2nd and most certainly 6th will need some. As we’re meant to be a smaller version of 4th, so I would say assault capabilities are needed to swarm back temporarily over run planets in the Galactic North.
Reminds me of an old Jake Hagel sig... It was of a Ghost from Starcraft holding a suppressed rifle and behind him was a big explosion. The text read something along the lines of, "Why do they bother putting suppressors on these things? You just blew up a fuel tank!" That thought struck me when I read the above. Arriving on a 700 meter long ship with 25,000 other soldiers kinda doesn't scream infiltration tactics unless the ship is somehow able to slip past whatever sensor nets exist on a world. But I suppose it somehow happened on Arkania so I guess another moot point...
Viktor Zukov wrote:Well, they are atmosphere capable. So that will let us dive on in and not have tiny little sub caps flittering in and out all over the place from as high up in the sky. Not to mention, it should be better equipped to be harassed by a wing of fighters than a bunch of sub caps anyways.
I dunno if this ship is necessarily better equipped to take on an entire wing of starfighters. It only has six quad-lasers spread out across an entire 700 by... I'll estimate 100, maybe 200 meter wide hull? Luckily it seems flat enough that dorsal and ventral placements of the turrets should be able to handle the sides, fore and aft reasonably well, but, that being said, that means there's only 3 on either side and 2 GPLs on either side. A wing of 72 starfighters/bombers would hardly be deterred by those few guns, especially if they prioritize them when attacking.

As for those tiny little subcaps, they do have two distinct advantages aside from numbers: first, they're a lot harder to track and hit with planetary based turbolasers. This ship is going to be priority one once it reaches the upper atmosphere and every ground based weapon is going to focus everything it has against it. Second, choice of LZs. Shuttles and dropships will have a much wider option of locations to drop down and won't need a kilometer long by half a kilometer wide clearing to land in. Probably bigger than that, and the terrain in that clearing has to be perfectly level for it to actually land (unless there's an option for this thing to somehow repel troops and drop tanks down from?)

Aside from barren wastes far removed from population centers, I imagine most of the desirable places with conditions for this vessel to land on would be, if not inhabited, at the very least better watched and observed and thus much harder to land on without drawing undue attention from the defenders. But again, that'll probably be a problem for the army and navy to sort out.

Now, I'm not citing that as a reason to not build it, I'm just more amused at the notion that a ship like this would have an easier time than the multitudes of shuttles, dropships, freighters, transports and whatnot at getting troops down safely. You call my eggs in one basket claim a moot point... Let's see how moot a point it is when we lose even one of these ships to a surprise ambush (or just a well laid out tactical defense) in an invasion attempt. ;)

This would probably make a very effective ferry but I'm finding it hard to justify deploying this ship as an assault transport to be used during invasions. Maybe after the world is softened up and the shuttles have dropped off the troops to form a beachhead but now I'm just thinking out loud.

Anyways, I'll agree to disagree on the role it should play in the wider scheme of things but, because it can serve as a really effective troop mover. I can approve this to go forward though since I can't reject it on difference of roles :P
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Re: Sonic-class Assault Transport

Post by Tom Saint » 2013-12-02 03:02

(this is gonna be short & sweet, and probably my only post until January)

Viktor Zukov wrote:Purpose: Only one military grade assault transport exists,
Where'd you pull this factoid from?
Viktor Zukov wrote: Technical Specifications:
Name/Type: Sonic-class Assault Transport
Designer/Manufacturer: Viktor Zukov/Kuat Drive Yards
Designation: Assault Transport
Crew: 2,000 + 200 Gunners
Length: 700 Meters
Speed: 75 MGLT, 1,000 km/h (1,000 Km/h until at 5 Km in depth then reduced to 750 Km/h)
Hyperdrive: x2
Shield Rating: 4,250 SBD
Hull Rating: 1,600 RU
Weapons: 6 Quad Laser Cannons, 4 General Purpose Launchers
Fighter Complement: None
Troops: 25,000 Stormtroopers, 5,000 Nova Stormtroopers, 150 BUPC, 20 HAT-AAs, 32 Mangar Assault Tanks (Can be reconfigured to support submerged water deployments)
Support Craft: 10 ATR-9 Modular Shuttles (Swapped for 20 Explorer Submergibles, can only be deployed after AT-AT Swimmers have cleared out the pressurized chamber)

Special: Helios, MIST, Stealth Bonded Armour, Ion Engine Baffle
See the Acclamator class transport and explain how almost every stat got doubled. And why's that useless deep ocean diving ability popping up again?
Viktor Zukov wrote:]Let’s put it this way, it should not be grinding on those supplies. As all of those troops would be on there for 2 weeks at most. That’s counting traveling time there, and how long everyone onboard will be onboard through the length of a full offload of troops.
Sounds a lot less "aasault transport" and a lot more giant trans-galactic bus. Is 2 weeks even long enough to cross the galaxy on an x2 hyperdrive?
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Re: Sonic-class Assault Transport

Post by Viktor Zukov » 2013-12-03 20:45

Where'd you pull this factoid from?
I pulled that from our Database that shows we only have one in NIF service we use. Upon looking again I saw the acclamator, but well it doesn't look like it will assault much of anything...
See the Acclamator class transport and explain how almost every stat got doubled. And why's that useless deep ocean diving ability popping up again?
Well first thing is I halved the weaponry, so less space is needed to route powerlines and adjust the hull to incorporate the weapons giving a fairly decent size of volume back to utilize. Second is I don't have the same type of hyperdrive, it is much slower, so I would assume it is much smaller than a .6. Speculation with that, but a reasonable assumption. I'm also using far less support ships on missions than the Acclamator does, so more space given out there. And useless deep ocean diving is important, as there are plenty of water based worlds that need to be taken care of. Otherwise welcome to the Rebellion again. Pockets of resistance left on worlds we deemed unimportant and otherwise seemingly dumb to bother with. *coughsHoth/Yavincoughs*
Sounds a lot less "aasault transport" and a lot more giant trans-galactic bus. Is 2 weeks even long enough to cross the galaxy on an x2 hyperdrive?
Well, a troop transport needs to hold troops! So I focused a lot more on them than throwing a whole rack of equipment, to carry around the galaxy. Make the LZ and then drop in the equipment. That's where I went with this. And unless we know better than our random time drops we use and somewhere we have distances that we can calculate into time frames. Well I'd assume 2 weeks sounds perfectly reasonable.
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Re: Sonic-class Assault Transport

Post by Tom Saint » 2014-01-20 06:23

Viktor Zukov wrote: Upon looking again I saw the acclamator, but well it doesn't look like it will assault much of anything...
You say that, yet this thing has far less weaponry than the Acclamator and you call it an "assault" transport.
Viktor Zukov wrote:Well first thing is I halved the weaponry, so less space is needed to route powerlines and adjust the hull to incorporate the weapons giving a fairly decent size of volume back to utilize. Second is I don't have the same type of hyperdrive, it is much slower, so I would assume it is much smaller than a .6. Speculation with that, but a reasonable assumption. I'm also using far less support ships on missions than the Acclamator does, so more space given out there.
Look at them side by side:

Acclamator / Sonic

Crew: 600 / 2200
Length: 752 meters / 700m
Speed: 60 MGLT, 950 Kph / 75MGLT, 1000 km/h
Hyperdrive: x0,6 / x2
Shield Rating: 1,860 SBD (est.) / 4,250
Hull Rating: 1,043 RU (est.) / 1,600
Weapons: 12 Quad Turbolaser Turrets / 6 quad laser cannon
24 Laser Cannons / 4 GP launchers
4 Strategic Missile/Torpedo Tubes (20+ warheads).
Fighter Complement: None. / None
Troops: 16,000 Troopers / 30,000 troops
48 AT-TEs / 32 Mangar Tanks
36 SPHAs / 20 HAT-AA
320 speeder bikes. / 150 BUPC
Support Craft: 80 LAAT gunships. / 10 ATR-9

Your hull is also 50m shorter. Ok you cut back the weapons, but that's cross purposes to making an Assault transport and any space it saved was ate up when you increased the armor thickness by 53%. You will save space by using the slower hyperdrive, but again the space savings you would have got from that are ate up and then some by the space needed for the 2.28 times larger shield generator. You also increased the sublight speed by 25%, those engines are space hogs. So you're already over-budget on space before we even get to the troop numbers. This ship the way it is now would have less troop space than the Acclamator.
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Re: Sonic-class Assault Transport

Post by Tavish McFini » 2014-01-20 13:55

Don't forget too: most, if not all capital ships that are atmosphere capable need repulsorlifts. The more mass a ship has, the more powerful the repulsorlift needs to be. Since the densities of people and armour plating are vastly different, you're going to need more or more powerful repulsors which means more power draw which means maybe a bigger reactor to compensate.

I'm not so sure about the definition of an assault transport versus a regular transport. At what point do we cross that threshold? This thing is still more armed than a general transport ship which, in most cases, wouldn't have any weapons or, if it has any, they're there as nothing more than for token defense to help the escort vessels. That's just my take, I personally think the bigger concern is the space issues.

Shame there isn't some metric that could be used to measure the volume of a ship required to house X number of crew/troops, hanger space, reactor size as well as a way to figure out the size of a reactor needed to power Y speed, repulsors, shields, engines etc.
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Re: Sonic-class Assault Transport

Post by Viktor Zukov » 2014-01-20 16:27

You say that, yet this thing has far less weaponry than the Acclamator and you call it an "assault" transport.
The actual ship's weapons to me don't make it an actual assault transport, as much as what it can bring to assault the area with. How often does a ship actually get to strafe the ground while coming in to drop off troops? I'm talking capital ship with atmospheric capabilities. I'd say, just the point weapons on the nose of the ship and possibly a few on the belly get to hit the area that you're aiming for. So having tons of weapons is not an advantage for an atmospheric descent to drop off troops as much as it would be to assault other ships on entry.
Your hull is also 50m shorter. Ok you cut back the weapons, but that's cross purposes to making an Assault transport and any space it saved was ate up when you increased the armor thickness by 53%. You will save space by using the slower hyperdrive, but again the space savings you would have got from that are ate up and then some by the space needed for the 2.28 times larger shield generator. You also increased the sublight speed by 25%, those engines are space hogs. So you're already over-budget on space before we even get to the troop numbers. This ship the way it is now would have less troop space than the Acclamator.
I will concede the hull issue, I did not think that through. As per what Fini said about needing more repulsors to counter that. So it will be adjusted properly. Also, at 80 LAATs which are 17.4m each (1,392m), I have 10 ATR-9s at 30m each (300m). So a space savings of 1,092m. We have 42 AT-TEs at 5.2m each (218.4m), versus 32 Mangar Tanks at 25m each (800m). So I lost 581.6m there. We have 36 SPHAs at 20.6m each (741.6m), I have 20 HAT-AAs at 18m each (360m). So I gain 381.6m there. We have 320 speeder bikes at we'll say 5m for the 74-Z Military Speederbike, which I would assume be the "standard" (1,600m), and I have 150 BUPC at 15m each (2,250m). So I lost 650m there. We have 16,000 troops at we'll say 3m of space (48,000m), and I have 30,000 troops at 3m of space as well (90,000m of space). So I lose 42,000m of there. So to sum it up, I lose total 41,758m. So assuming the space gain from the hyperdrive off sets my engines, and trimming down the hull 500RU should add some volume back. I don't have the magic math you do when you calculate the volume of the vessel, but to me it seems as though I'm pushing the envelope of the vessel. So I'm going to trim down 5,000 troops to concede some of that error as well.
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