Metal-Crystal Phase Shifter Technical Review

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Metal-Crystal Phase Shifter Technical Review

Post by Kane » 2011-02-28 20:11

Metal-Crystal Phase Shifter Technical Review

It should be no surprise by now that McFini is working hard on his MCPS revival. This thread is intended as a technical documentation over how this unusual weapon works.

Model: MCPS Quarter Scale Prototype
Crew: 12, skeleton 8
Body: 3D (starfighter scale)
Fire Rate: 1/5
Fire Control: 2D
Range 3-30/50/300
Blast Radius: 300 meters
Damage: 5D

This is the MCPS prototype. As we will find out here, it's noticeably different from the field version of the weapon.

The MCPS was first researched in a project lead by Doxin. The first working prototype produced a field that effectively worked over about one percent of the target surface area.
The Jedi Academy Sourcebook wrote:The MCPS field alters the crystalline structure of metals, essentially causing metals to break down into fine powder. The MCPS can penetrave conventional shielding and, in theory at least, turn starship hull plats into powder.
The Jedi Academy Sourcebook wrote:Even so, the field has a devastating effect on ship hulls, becase it leaves pinhole structural failures over the entire surface. The resulting hull breach and loss of hull integrity is enough to destroy most ships.
Doxin used a focusing lense from the Death Star project to project his field.
Because the dish wasn't designed to do anything like this, the field is relatively weak. Eventually, Doxin plans to produce a larger prototype using a custom-designed lens which he hopes will result in a full-powered generator.
The first firing of the MCPS in live combat resulted in a corvette breaking up, and the MCPS was rendered unable to fire again.

Champions of the Force wrote:Next, Doxin slurped his hot beverage and gave a report of a new weapon his scientists had been testing. "It's a metal-crystal phase shifter," Doxin said. "MCPS for short."

"Hmmmm," Tol Sivron said, tapping his chin with a long claw. "We'll have to think of a catchier name before we present it to the Imperials."
"It's just a working acronym," Doxin said, embarrassed. "We've constructed a functioning model, though our results have been inconsistent. The tests have given us reason to hope for a successful larger-scale implementation."

"And what exactly does it do?" Tol Sivron asked. Doxin scowled at him. "Director, I've filed several reports over the past seven weeks. Haven't you read them?" Sivron flinched his head-tails instinctively. "I'm a busy man, and I can't recall everything I read," he said.

"Especially about a project with such an uninspired name. Refresh my memory, please."
Doxin grew animated as he spoke. "The MCPS field alters the crystalline structure of metals-e.g., those in starship hulls. The MCPS can penetrate conventional shielding and turn hull plates into powder. The actual physics is more complicated, of course; this is just an executive summary."
"Yes, yes," Tol Sivron said. "That sounds very good. What were these problems you encountered?"
"Well, the MCPS worked effectively over only about one percent of the surface area on our test plate."
"So it might not be terribly useful?" Tol Sivron said.

Doxin rubbed his fingers across the polished table surface, making a squeaking sound. "Not exactly true, Director. The one percent effectiveness was distributed over a wide area, leaving pinhole failures over the entire surface. Such a loss of integrity would be enough to destroy any ship."
Sivron grinned. "Ah, very good! Continue your studies and continue filing those excellent reports."
Champions of the Force wrote:"This is too easy," Wedge said. A desperate signal came from one of the corvette captains. His image flickered as he beamed a transmission on the emergency channel. "Something's happening to our hull! Shields aren't effective. Some new kind of weapon. Hull walls are weakening. Can't pinpoint where was-
The transmission cut off as the corvette became a ball of fire and shrapnel.
"Back off!" Wedge shouted into the open channel, but the second corvette plunged forward, choosing instead to use his full complement of dual turbolaser cannons as well as a pair of proton torpedoes that had been specially installed for the occupation mission.
"Captain Ortola! Back off!"
The captain of the second corvette blasted the nearest planetoid. Proton torpedoes sizzled with uncontained energy. Turbolaser blasts ignited volatile gases and flammables, reducing the small planetoid to incandescent dust. "That won't be a problem anymore, sir," Captain Ortola said. "You may deploy the strike forces at your leisure."
Champions of the Force wrote:Hanging above Maw Installation, the Rebel ships looked like nightmarish constructions, brushing aside the Installation's defensive lasers as if they were mere insect bites.
Doxin sat by an interlaboratory communication station and cheered as he saw one of the Rebel corvettes crumble, disintegrating into a cloud of pulverized metal plate and escaping fuel and coolant gases.
"It worked!" Doxin said. "The MCPS worked!" He tapped the receiving jack in his ear, listened, and frowned with his enormous lips. When Doxin wrinkled the brow on his bald head, the ridges rippled all the way up to his crown like rugged-terrain treads.
"Unfortunately, we won't get a second shot, Director. The MCPS seems to have malfunctioned," Doxin said. "But I do believe the original success against an actual target has proved the system worthy of additional development."
"Indeed," Tol Sivron agreed, looking admiringly at the expanding cloud of debris from the corvette. "We must have a follow-up meeting."
"The system is presently off-line," Doxin said.
The second Rebel corvette came in with all weapons blazing, and the asteroid housing the offices and labs of the high-energy concepts incinerated under the barrage.
"It appears to be unquestionably out of commission," Sivron said.
Doxin was deeply disappointed. "Now we'll never conduct a post-shot analysis," he said with a sigh. "It's going to be hard to compile a full report without actual data."

Points of interest: The first MCPS was located in one of the Maw Installation's clustered asteroid labs (Lab Module A), with its power generated from two power plants in another lab (Lab Module D).

It produces an energy field rather than a beam, 300 m wide. It has a maximum range of 300 (space units), which is 3 times longer than the Death Star (100) and 4 times longer than a typical heavy turbolaser battery (75). Conventional shields offer no protection against it, leaving the MCPS to directly strike ship hull metal and pulverize it. It also has an abmyssal fire rate and was only able to destroy a corvette during its debut. It is not designed to affect other materials than metal.
Even at only one per cent effectiveness, it can destroy any ship caught in its 300 m3 field.
Fire control effectiveness appears to be the same as standard. 5D damage isn't much even when you bypass shields, but this was an understrength prototype.

As an aside, the use of a lens for the Death Star suggests that the superlaser is indeed a LASER, but they also used such a lens for the very different MCPS weapon, so one can assume that the lens is not an optical device. Perhaps it simply refers to the shape of the device.


Next we're looking at the MCPS deployed in the field by Daala's Maw Irregular Fleet in the Second Battle of Fondor at 41 ABY, some 30-35 years after the deployment of the prototype MCPS.
GALACTIC WARSHIP OCEAN, OFF FONDOR

Chimaera cut a swath through the battlefield and headed straight for the Anakin Solo, firing turbolasers.

"They always say that Daala tore up the strategy books." Niathal was still assessing the strength and fire-power of the eclectic fleet that had just fallen into her lap. Her immediate guess was that she now had 30 percent more hulls than the Moff-Jacen fleet, as she now thought of it. "She looks as if she's going to ram him."

"I'd get out of her way, "Makin said.

Several other commanders in Jacen's fleet must have had the same idea. They broke off attacks and headed for the Anakin Solo. There were now a six warships converging on the Chimaera, and Niathal tried to guess Daala's strategy. One advantage of having a completely unexpected and di-verse fleet suddenly emerge in theater was that it plunged everything into chaos, and each commander had to pause and take stock-but that included Daala's allies. It was crowded space. Niathal had an impression of an ancient maritime battle on Naboo, when ships had been packed too close together to move or fire safely.

"Yes, she's going to turn as late as she can, "said Niathal.

"Even so, I wouldn't be the frigate on that bearing there."

"Did she say Maw Irregular Fleet?"

"She did."

One destroyer bearing down on Chimaera's port beam appeared to be targeting her bridge, and a cruiser was on an intercept course from starboard. Chimaera opened fire on both simultaneously, with apparently little effect, and held her course.

"What was that, Vio?" Niathal asked. "Turbolaser?"

"Unknown, ma'am."

"This isn't the time to admire what she's had done in refit, but I haven't seen anything like that. Sensors? Tell me what Chimaera's got by way of armaments. I just hope this isn't some massive bluff and she's just scrambled every-thing from the breakers' yard, because Jacen will sense that very fast."

Niathal, still monitoring the developing collision, moved to watch one of the holocam feeds from the remotes near-est the Anakin Solo. Chimaera was letting smaller vessels take pot shots at her, which her shields shrugged off, and then she simply targeted the same two vessels that she'd returned fire upon moments earlier.

Niathal waited for signs of impact. What she saw instead was the hull of one ship deforming and then simply burst-ing apart like a bag of grainmeal, with no accompanying explosion. The aft section was intact, but there was a large enough hole in the hull to span five decks, maybe more, and expose compartments to vacuum.

It was an oddly silent, unfit end for the cruiser. It rang a bell with Niathal.

"Oh, I think Daala's brought some of her toys with her, "Makin said. He'd been watching in silence.

"Yes, I do believe she has some novel weapons." Niathal commed the Maw flagship. "Ocean to Chimaera thank you for your assistance. Are you armed with unconventional weapons?"

"Ocean, confirm that, we have metal-crystal phase shifters.... among other things."
1) The Chimaera still carried turbolasers as well as the MCPS.

2) It destroyed one ship with an MCPS shot, meaning it carried at least one MCPS aboard. The Chimaera also fired on a second ship which is implied to have been from a second MCPS device.

3) It seems to have fired a beam rather than projecting a field, or it shouldn't have been confused for a turbolaser at all.

4) The damage seems to have been somewhat focused, given that the aft section of one of the ships - either a destroyer or a cruiser - was intact. The five decks hole suggests that the MCPS hit there. Again, it is implied that it may have been a beam or pulse rather than a field projection. This is merely an interpretation however, several sources claims it projects a field, the JAS and NEGtWT for instance.

5) The area of effect was basically half the ship with an entry hole of five or so decks. This could still be the 300 m3 of the prototype, which means it can't desintegrate a ship much larger than that in a single shot.

6) Ships hit by the MCPS more or less desintegrate rather than being ignited into "incandescent dust" by a turbolaser.

7) The Chimaera probably carried and could use two MCPS simultanously. It was the largest ship in the Maw Irregular Fleet, the rest were a Turbulent-class, a Venator, a Victory I, an Acclamator I, 2 Republic-class, some Scimitar-class frigates and 2 Crusader-class corvettes. All relatively small stuff, but this small fleet made a serious difference in the battle.

8) The Second Battle of Fondor had Caedus' 30+ ISDs plus support ships against ca 40 ISD equivalents. After the small Maw Irregular Fleet had made an impact, Caedus was said to be outgunned as well as outnumbered. Not strange really, even if Daala only had one ISD and a smattering of smaller vessels. Even if only the Chimaera carried two MCPS, they could turkey shoot Caedus' fleet in minutes. Which they did, he retrated with 30+ losses and 30% defectors.

Assuming that the Chimaera carried two, even medium ships like the Turbulent, Venator, Victory, and Acclamator should have been able to carry one in addition to regular armament - and the texts imply it was not the only vessel carrying such.

9) A conservative guesstimate suggests that the MCPS has an effective fire power ratio of 10:1 compared to conventional weaponry, all because it can bypass conventional shields, has four times the range, and 20% the rate of fire (that we know of). It could well be more, but the details are too fuzzy.
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Re: Metal-Crystal Phase Shifter Technical Review

Post by Tavish McFini » 2011-02-28 21:45

Ace wrote:It should be no surprise by now that McFini is working hard on his MCPS revival. This thread is intended as a technical documentation over how this unusual weapon works.
Ace, you are the man! And for the rest of ya, yeah, I am hoping to revive the MCPS… by building an actual working model (or more) and fitting them to the most valuable overrated damaged flagship in the NIF! Seriously, if you cannot guess which one, you need to come visit Third Fleet ;)

Needless to say, depending on activity levels, I might also include an SM or two based on this. Yeah, I’m trying to make a focus on intertwining stories with other things going on like R&D. After all, its one thing to design and test everything in the R&D thread, but it’s another matter entirely to take what’s going on in the R&D and make an SM out of it!
Ace wrote: It produces an energy field rather than a beam, 300 m wide. It has a maximum range of 300 (space units), which is 3 times longer than the Death Star (100) and 4 times longer than a typical heavy turbolaser battery (75). Conventional shields offer no protection against it, leaving the MCPS to directly strike ship hull metal and pulverize it. It also has an abmyssal fire rate and was only able to destroy a corvette during its debut. It is not designed to affect other materials than metal.
Even at only one per cent effectiveness, it can destroy any ship caught in its 300 m3 field.
So, wait… an energy field 300 m wide? Forgive me if this is a stupid question, which it probably is, but how is that still not a beam? Maybe I’m getting stuck on terminology but I generally think of a field as, say, an aura… ie, pick a point and go out x meters in all directions from said point. Everything within x meters of that point is considered to be within the “field” of that point. By a field 300 m wide, does that mean the ship with the MCPS is included in that? Obviously not, otherwise Daala’s ship should have gone poof, but still.

Or do you mean a cone shaped field with a 300 meter diameter and a length (range) of… 300 space units. What is a space unit anyways?

Anyhow, assuming we just took a pop (or beer) can and made that 300 m wide and 300 space units long, is that the best approximation?
Ace wrote: 3) It seems to have fired a beam rather than projecting a field, or it shouldn't have been confused for a turbolaser at all.
Now you’ve got me confused… :P If that’s the case, then we’re hitting the enemy with, essentially, pin-pricks of hull damaging energy which would take a long time to cause any hull damage. What’s the cross-sectional area of a turbolaser beam?
Ace wrote: 4) The damage seems to have been somewhat focused, given that the aft section of one of the ships - either a destroyer or a cruiser - was intact. The five decks hole suggests that the MCPS hit there. Again, it is implied that it may have been a beam or pulse rather than a field projection. This is merely an interpretation however, several sources claims it projects a field, the JAS and NEGtWT for instance.
Consider me doubly confused… Perhaps establishing the difference between a field vs. a beam would help (me at least) before we tackle what these conclusions mean :D
Ace wrote: 5) The area of effect was basically half the ship with an entry hole of five or so decks. This could still be the 300 m3 of the prototype, which means it can't desintegrate a ship much larger than that in a single shot.
So, would I be correct in saying that the MCPS could disintegrate 300 cubic meters of a ship just like a Nightstinger rifle can vaporize a cubic meter of durasteel?

Also, what if we fired the MCPS at, say, an ESD, like, say, the Intimidator- yes, I enjoy using my ship as the brunt of hypothetical theories, especially damaging ones!!!- Say the… beam… or field covered only the aft section in such a way that half the beam hit the Int and the other half of the beam was able to travel past and strike, say, the Nemesis- If not my ship, the Nem is a close second for my hypothetical theories of destruction ;)- The Nem is still within the 300 space unit range so here’s the question, assuming exactly half the beam/field hit the Int and the other half struck the Nem, would that mean 150 cubic meters of hull from both ships would go poof? Or 300 cubic meters from each? Or would the beam/field, after hitting just the Int to begin with, simply stop there and not go any further, even if the ship weren’t covering the entire cross sectional area of said beam/field?

Anyone play 40K? Anyone use Eldar? Anyone use their “vibro-cannon”? That’s sorta the idea I’m getting at, where the beam/field goes past models to affect everything behind it to range x. In this case, I imagine, if the Int were completely over the beam/field, said beam/field wouldn’t be extending past the Int (unless less than 300 cubic meters of hull were within it?)

On that note… Let’s go back to the “field vs. beam” bit. If it is 300 m wide, that’s a lot of area. One could easily fit a mass of Y-Wings in that area… You can see where I’m going with this right? ;) Great anti-starfighter weapon, especially since they’d have thinner hulls and, if the MCPS can only ever affect a total of 300 cubic meters, that’s still a lot of starfighter volume to destroy!!!
Ace wrote: 9) A conservative guesstimate suggests that the MCPS has an effective fire power ratio of 10:1 compared to conventional weaponry, all because it can bypass conventional shields, has four times the range, and 20% the rate of fire (that we know of). It could well be more, but the details are too fuzzy.
Maybe it would depend on the ship we’re targeting? After all, if we were to start smacking an ESD with this thing all over, punching 5 deck deep holes into its hull while it’s shields are completely charged, well, I think in a battle of Int with MCPS vs. Int with, say, extra weapons in place of all that excess space, Int with MCPS is going to win because it doesn’t care about the other Int’s shields.

What’s more, if we use the MCPS to target shield generators which probably have a lot of metal (soldering for the diodes, wires and all that jazz) we could effectively reduce a fully shielded ESD to little more than target practice for the rest of the fleets while the MCPS moves onto other shielded ships.

Also, and I know I’m probably getting ahead of myself, and probably ruining any surprise elements for future posts, but if we start smacking around large ships with the MCPS and then use interdictors to further add to the stresses on their hulls… we could probably even speed up their destruction more as the gravitational forces, combined with the vacuum of space, will help tear the ship apart with fewer MCPS shots.
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Re: Metal-Crystal Phase Shifter Technical Review

Post by Kane » 2011-03-01 08:46

Tavish McFini wrote:So, wait… an energy field 300 m wide? Forgive me if this is a stupid question, which it probably is, but how is that still not a beam? Maybe I’m getting stuck on terminology but I generally think of a field as, say, an aura… ie, pick a point and go out x meters in all directions from said point. Everything within x meters of that point is considered to be within the “field” of that point. By a field 300 m wide, does that mean the ship with the MCPS is included in that? Obviously not, otherwise Daala’s ship should have gone poof, but still.
An energy beam is a focused, directional stream of continuous energy over a time long enough to connect the origin with the target. A field is an area, or in this case, a volume. Obviously the field is projected from something, and going by the later event, it's projected via a beam, but the area of effect is a field larger than the 'entrance hole'.

I have to correct myself as well. I said '300 m3' but that's an oversimplification; I blame McFini for this. You see from the stat post that it's "300 m blast radius" which means a sphere with a 300 m radius, which equals a volume of 113 097 335.52923 m3. It is most certainly not a defined box with a 300 m side.

That is a large volume, but it's probably not enough to disintegrate an ISD (1600 m long) in one shot. It would be enough to dissolve nearly half of the ship though, which matches the description from the second battle of Fondor pretty well. A few more shots and the ship's totally gone.
Tavish McFini wrote:What is a space unit anyways?
A Space Unit is an arbitrary measurement from the WEG RPG stats. We can derive its length from various sources, but the longest distance a turbolaser has been fired was from the outskirts of a star system. If that's 75 SU, 1 SU would equal about 0,7 AU, if we count Neptune and not Pluto as the outskirts.

300 SU would then equal approximately 120 AU or 17 951 760 000 km, or almost 1000 light hours. The long range of the MCPS makes it admirably suited for planetary bombardment, outside virtually anything they could fire back with. Except that it only works on metal, of course.
Tavish McFini wrote:So, would I be correct in saying that the MCPS could disintegrate 300 cubic meters of a ship just like a Nightstinger rifle can vaporize a cubic meter of durasteel?
Pretty much, except that it's a 300 m radius sphere.
Tavish McFini wrote:Also, what if we fired the MCPS at, say, an ESD, like, say, the Intimidator- yes, I enjoy using my ship as the brunt of hypothetical theories, especially damaging ones!!!- Say the… beam… or field covered only the aft section in such a way that half the beam hit the Int and the other half of the beam was able to travel past and strike, say, the Nemesis- If not my ship, the Nem is a close second for my hypothetical theories of destruction ;)- The Nem is still within the 300 space unit range so here’s the question, assuming exactly half the beam/field hit the Int and the other half struck the Nem, would that mean 150 cubic meters of hull from both ships would go poof? Or 300 cubic meters from each? Or would the beam/field, after hitting just the Int to begin with, simply stop there and not go any further, even if the ship weren’t covering the entire cross sectional area of said beam/field?
If the Nemesis and the Intimidator ever gets within 300 m of each other, I'm going to assume you're on a ramming course and take appropriate action.

Seriously speaking though, the MCPS field hits any metal within its volume of effect. This could mean a group of starfighters, but capships are generally not that close to each other.

The first Death Star's concave dish is around 36 km in diameter, so if anything, the first MCPS fired an inverse cone. The Chimaera could certainly not carry two of those, so the projection device has to be a lot smaller, perhaps comparable to the 'five decks perhaps plus a few' entrance hole.

So it's not a projected cone, and it doesn't have this effect all along its projected beam. In functionality is appears more to work like an explosive shell with a limited entrance hole and a blast effect at the designated target point.

Note 'designated target point', not 'point of impact'. If it had 'exploded' at the point of impact, the entrance hole would have disappeared along with it. Instead it seems to have affected the hull further inside the ship.
Tavish McFini wrote:What’s more, if we use the MCPS to target shield generators which probably have a lot of metal (soldering for the diodes, wires and all that jazz) we could effectively reduce a fully shielded ESD to little more than target practice for the rest of the fleets while the MCPS moves onto other shielded ships.
Yes, that is a valid tactic.
Tavish McFini wrote:Also, and I know I’m probably getting ahead of myself, and probably ruining any surprise elements for future posts, but if we start smacking around large ships with the MCPS and then use interdictors to further add to the stresses on their hulls… we could probably even speed up their destruction more as the gravitational forces, combined with the vacuum of space, will help tear the ship apart with fewer MCPS shots.
Gravity bombs would be more suitable. They're not needed however, the MCPS seems effective enough on its own.

Even within the MCPS blast radius, it only affected 1% of the hull structure, but evenly so over the metal, which caused it to break up rather than pulverize. The field version of the weapon seem to have been improved an actually dissolve all metal within its volume of effect, but leaving metal outside of it relatively untouched.
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Re: Metal-Crystal Phase Shifter Technical Review

Post by Tavish McFini » 2011-03-01 15:54

Ace wrote: I have to correct myself as well. I said '300 m3' but that's an oversimplification; I blame McFini for this.
I accept the blame :D
Ace wrote: You see from the stat post that it's "300 m blast radius" which means a sphere with a 300 m radius, which equals a volume of 113 097 335.52923 m3. It is most certainly not a defined box with a 300 m side.
Ohhhh… I get it now! I get jokes!

Seriously though, that makes sense. That’s a pretty impressive blast radius, able to consume most of just about anything smaller than a heavy frigate… I’d ask how one would be able to fire a beam that could turn itself into a field but I’ll just let ignorance be bliss in this case since it works :D
Ace wrote: 300 SU would then equal approximately 120 AU or 17 951 760 000 km, or almost 1000 light hours. The long range of the MCPS makes it admirably suited for planetary bombardment, outside virtually anything they could fire back with. Except that it only works on metal, of course.
That’s some range! We could wipe out planetary defences from well beyond their range! Probably end up hitting civilian hovercars and buildings and shuttles and what not, but those are minor details in the grand scheme of things! Besides, they shouldn’t have been there in the first place!

MCPS, the new way to BDZ!
Ace wrote: If the Nemesis and the Intimidator ever gets within 300 m of each other, I'm going to assume you're on a ramming course and take appropriate action.
I forget how Han Solo in ANH put it, but “Everything’s under control here, we’re good. How are you?”

I was hung up on the way the beam/field worked but now I get it. Still, it begs the question, why did you even let the Int get that close to begin with? ;) Also, it was Ib’s idea!
Ace wrote: Seriously speaking though, the MCPS field hits any metal within its volume of effect. This could mean a group of starfighters, but capships are generally not that close to each other.
This would assume that we hit those nimble starfighters though right? Or could we fire it in such a way to, ah, explode generate the field after reaching a predetermined distance like turbolaser “flak”? Or am I completely off in left field with how that works too and would be better off trying to improve the tracking systems to target and accurately hit starfighters then?
Ace wrote: The first Death Star's concave dish is around 36 km in diameter, so if anything, the first MCPS fired an inverse cone. The Chimaera could certainly not carry two of those, so the projection device has to be a lot smaller, perhaps comparable to the 'five decks perhaps plus a few' entrance hole.

So it's not a projected cone, and it doesn't have this effect all along its projected beam. In functionality is appears more to work like an explosive shell with a limited entrance hole and a blast effect at the designated target point.

Note 'designated target point', not 'point of impact'. If it had 'exploded' at the point of impact, the entrance hole would have disappeared along with it. Instead it seems to have affected the hull further inside the ship.

Even within the MCPS blast radius, it only affected 1% of the hull structure, but evenly so over the metal, which caused it to break up rather than pulverize. The field version of the weapon seem to have been improved an actually dissolve all metal within its volume of effect, but leaving metal outside of it relatively untouched.
So, just to make sure I got this all straight, the shot is able to pass through the hull itself and into the targeted ship, affecting all the metal within a 300 m radius sphere from the “designated target point”? Or does the shot “penetrate” through the outer hull into the ship before reaching the “point of impact” and then taking effect? If it’s the latter, what determines how far the shot penetrates?

I just thought of another idea of how we can use this thing in a fiendish manner which is even better than targeting the shield generators! Of course, it will solely rely upon the answer to my last question though, I’m sure reactors, in most cases, are, generally, within 300 meters from the hull :D
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Re: Metal-Crystal Phase Shifter Technical Review

Post by Kane » 2011-03-01 17:01

Tavish McFini wrote:This would assume that we hit those nimble starfighters though right? Or could we fire it in such a way to, ah, explode generate the field after reaching a predetermined distance like turbolaser “flak”? Or am I completely off in left field with how that works too and would be better off trying to improve the tracking systems to target and accurately hit starfighters then?
Tavish McFini wrote:So, just to make sure I got this all straight, the shot is able to pass through the hull itself and into the targeted ship, affecting all the metal within a 300 m radius sphere from the “designated target point”? Or does the shot “penetrate” through the outer hull into the ship before reaching the “point of impact” and then taking effect? If it’s the latter, what determines how far the shot penetrates?
Since the shot seems to have penetrated the hull and released its effect on the inside rather than directly on the hull, it gives that the field effect will take place where you aim it rather than at what it hits.

This isn't set in stone though, the book isn't clear enough on the details to determine the exact effects. The alternative interpretation of hull impact is still a possible one, but then we'll have to assume that the hole in the aft section comes from overpenetration of the beam - which is also strange because it means the beam went straight through the hull but at the same time somehow exploded against the bow section. A peculiar weapon for sure.

As for how far it penetrates, this is probably depending on the firepower of the MCPS.

The MCPS prototype has a damage listing of 5D, while an ISD sports a hull armour rated at 7D. That would give it a 35.7% chance to penetrate said hull in a single shot. However the prototype is known to be an understrength weapon, and presumably we can build MCPS guns in varying sizes. There's also the innovative tactic of aiming for the same spot twice.
Tavish McFini wrote:I just thought of another idea of how we can use this thing in a fiendish manner which is even better than targeting the shield generators! Of course, it will solely rely upon the answer to my last question though, I’m sure reactors, in most cases, are, generally, within 300 meters from the hull :D
Personally I would suggest that the MCPS could also be used as a defence against missiles, volume of effect and all that. A Fire Control rating of 2D is better than heavy turbolasers (0D) and medium turbolasers (1D) but not as good as typical defence lasers (3D - 4D).

Note that heavy turbos have a rate of fire of around 30 RPM which gives the MCPS 6 RPM = 1 shot per 10 seconds. The range more than makes up for the low rate of fire except at close distances.
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Re: Metal-Crystal Phase Shifter Technical Review

Post by Tavish McFini » 2011-03-01 19:07

Ace wrote: Since the shot seems to have penetrated the hull and released its effect on the inside rather than directly on the hull, it gives that the field effect will take place where you aim it rather than at what it hits.
So we can aim in 3 dimensions then? *cue the mocking laughter* Well, technically you aim in only two dimensions since you’re only looking at the vertical and horizontal, the depth (distance) is a given, the bullet is going to travel as far as you need it to (otherwise you need to move closer, but you generally move yourself within range before actually looking through the crosshairs anyways). A person doesn’t aim thinking that you want a slug or blaster bolt to go only x feet but no further than that. The MCPS, what with it’s massive range of clear across our solar system and ungodly penetrative abilities, I could, in theory, aim for the Home One (right, we destroyed that) Home Two which is safely nestled behind a literal wall of cruisers and escorts that would otherwise be blocking the line of sight/effect from a turbolaser (or even a superlaser). I could still aim well past the Home Two’s escorts and essentially target the rearguard ships, which, more often than not, are command ships, and remove them from the fight before they even got engaged? If so, that is bloody awesome!
Ace wrote: As for how far it penetrates, this is probably depending on the firepower of the MCPS.
Well, we would need to establish a baseline MCPS and work from there then wouldn’t we? ;) If the two on the Chimera could nearly penetrate an ISD, we could probably use those as our default ones and, adapting them to the size and power of the Int, be able to fire through a Death Star (prototype) and hit the Nem on the other side :D *is zapped with the latest innovation of Force Lightning* Okay, okay! Not the Nem… how about the Annihilation?

Which then brings me back to the big question, what sort of number should we slap on the Int? An ESD is, what, 1000 times bigger than an ISD? If Daala had 2, than, technically, I should be able to fit 2000. Of course, we don’t know what modifications were made to the Chimera (how many other weapon systems were removed to fit those two). But least we forget, the Int hasn’t yet been upgraded to take into account all the “free” space you so wonderfully pointed out long ago.

Of course, all this is ignoring the fact that a) it would take time to build these things, especially in prototype stage and b) I would want that many. Not that I wouldn’t, but I would like to slap on some extra protection to the Int… it’s getting more beat up than the rest of the NIF, combined, to date ;) I figured 10 was probably a good baseline start, depending how fast we could build the prototypes and fit them to the Nem and I’m basing that off of a 2 month repair job so the ship is ready for C1M33. I’m honestly not sure the correlation of damage the ship’s suffered to our repair capacity but I’m going to guess a month to build 10 MCPSs and then another month to fit them to the Int, wiring, power installation, targeting systems, plush leather chairs for the gunners (yeah, no expense spared in Third Fleet) and even a mini fridge in the room.
Ace wrote: However the prototype is known to be an under strength weapon, and presumably we can build MCPS guns in varying sizes.

Personally I would suggest that the MCPS could also be used as a defence against missiles, volume of effect and all that. A Fire Control rating of 2D is better than heavy turbolasers (0D) and medium turbolasers (1D) but not as good as typical defence lasers (3D - 4D).

Note that heavy turbos have a rate of fire of around 30 RPM which gives the MCPS 6 RPM = 1 shot per 10 seconds. The range more than makes up for the low rate of fire except at close distances.
Can you say MISS version 7.0? ;) Of course, what are typical missile ranges? Obviously we’re not going to be targeting missiles only 300 meters or less away, unless we want friendly fire incidents. That is, unless we can start changing our shield harmonics to block the MCPS from affecting our own ships and TIEs.

Alternatively, would it be possible to scale down the MCPS to, say, reduce the effect radius and up the fire rate or maybe maintain the power so that we don’t need to fire more than once at a missile to reduce it to dust? While I’m off on that line of thinking, it would seem plausible to make a planetary MCPS though I guess when a planetary turbolaser has the power to destroy an ISD in a single shot, it’s kind of a moot point huh? What if we fit a scaled down one to a tank droid or turn it into a ground based artillery weapon?
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Re: Metal-Crystal Phase Shifter Technical Review

Post by Kane » 2011-03-01 20:45

Tavish McFini wrote:So we can aim in 3 dimensions then?
You can aim in 3 dimensions with turbolasers as well, especially if 'flak turbolasers' is true. You still need line of sight however.
Tavish McFini wrote:Which then brings me back to the big question, what sort of number should we slap on the Int? An ESD is, what, 1000 times bigger than an ISD? If Daala had 2, than, technically, I should be able to fit 2000. Of course, we don’t know what modifications were made to the Chimera (how many other weapon systems were removed to fit those two). But least we forget, the Int hasn’t yet been upgraded to take into account all the “free” space you so wonderfully pointed out long ago.

Of course, all this is ignoring the fact that a) it would take time to build these things, especially in prototype stage and b) I would want that many. Not that I wouldn’t, but I would like to slap on some extra protection to the Int… it’s getting more beat up than the rest of the NIF, combined, to date ;) I figured 10 was probably a good baseline start, depending how fast we could build the prototypes and fit them to the Nem and I’m basing that off of a 2 month repair job so the ship is ready for C1M33. I’m honestly not sure the correlation of damage the ship’s suffered to our repair capacity but I’m going to guess a month to build 10 MCPSs and then another month to fit them to the Int, wiring, power installation, targeting systems, plush leather chairs for the gunners (yeah, no expense spared in Third Fleet) and even a mini fridge in the room.
I would guesstimate that even the newer model of MCPS is larger than a turbolaser and draws more power, since the Chimaera only fielded two that we know of. As you say, you could fit 2000 of them. But you surely would need to remove some of the regular armament to do it.

Obviously you could use some of the extra space - and the extra space given from our newer technologies - to put in more power for guns as well. Perhaps even power as many as 2000, but they do take up sizeable space if the Chim only had two.

If we're using that as a baseline compared to heavy turbolasers, we get a 60/2 ratio for turbolasers / MCPS. You should consider this the effective upper limit, I believe. For the Intimidator, that basically works out to 60 MCPS.
Tavish McFini wrote:Can you say MISS version 7.0? ;) Of course, what are typical missile ranges? Obviously we’re not going to be targeting missiles only 300 meters or less away, unless we want friendly fire incidents. That is, unless we can start changing our shield harmonics to block the MCPS from affecting our own ships and TIEs.

Alternatively, would it be possible to scale down the MCPS to, say, reduce the effect radius and up the fire rate or maybe maintain the power so that we don’t need to fire more than once at a missile to reduce it to dust? While I’m off on that line of thinking, it would seem plausible to make a planetary MCPS though I guess when a planetary turbolaser has the power to destroy an ISD in a single shot, it’s kind of a moot point huh? What if we fit a scaled down one to a tank droid or turn it into a ground based artillery weapon?
Typical missile range is a little difficult to say, since it also depends on the relative velocity of the firing ship. Proton torpedoes have a typical active time of 40 seconds. If their relative velocity is 90 PSL, their maximum range is 36 light seconds, or 10 792 528 km. If their initial relative velocity is zero, their maximum range is 344 960 km, or 1.15 light seconds. The corresponding figures for concussion missiles is 6 745 330 km at 90 PSL and 306 250 km from zero, or 22.5 and 1 light second. Their time to hit will be equal to their maximum active time, which is 40 seconds and 25 seconds respectively.

This is based on 1 MGLT equalling approximately 400 g acceleration based on the Imperial fleet going around Endor's Sanctuary Moon.

The equation is distance in meters = 1/2gt2, where g = gravity, t = time in seconds, squared. Feel free to double check.

I don't know why you would want to scale down the size of their field effect. The larger, the better chance to hit something.

Also, we may not be able to scale it down to tank droid size. The Chimaera has two MCPS, which suggests that a ship around half that size - a Victory or so - could field one. I haven't seen any indication that the corvettes and frigates in Daala's fleet carried MCPS guns.
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Re: Metal-Crystal Phase Shifter Technical Review

Post by Tavish McFini » 2011-03-01 21:29

That all makes sense then. Shame we won’t be able to shrink them down (yet?) because they’d be really useful for the army. Although, we could just BDZ the enemy forces from orbit and let our Stomries run around with ceramic or plastic based weapons :D Or maybe just go all Ewok on the NR and use sharp, pointy sticks and rocks. Payback is such a beeznatch! In fact, the only group that could pose a threat to us at this point would be Ewoks and we’ve learned our lesson, or so I hope…

So, the following would be the proposed stats to the Intimidator, the new stuff added will be marked in aquamarine while numbers changed will be marked in spam.

Name/Type: Executor-class Star Dreadnaught
Designer/Manufacturer: Kuat Drive Yards
Designation: Battleship
Crew: 279,150 + 1,710 Gunners
Length: 19,000 meters
Speed: 40 MGLT
Hyperdrive: x2
Shield Rating: 108,000 SBD + 48,000 SBD backup
Hull Rating: 53,000 RU
Weapons: 10 Experimental Metal-Crystaline Phase Shifters, 1,800 Taim & Bak Turbolaser Batteries (class 7), 1,800 Taim & Bak Heavy Turbolaser Batteries (class 10), 1,800 Advanced General Purpose Octet Mass Drivers (Model GPMD8), 1,800 Borstel Ion Cannon Batteries (class 4), 300 Interceptor Tractor Beam Projectors.
Fighter Complement: 24 Squadrons.
Troops: 60,000 Stormtroopers, 25 AT-AT Walkers, 50 AT-ST Walkers, 250 light vehicles and AT-PTs (est), 3 Pre-fabricated Garrison Bases.
Support Craft: 20 Lambda-Class Imperial Shuttles, 15 Assault Shuttles, 10 Assault Gunboats. (200 Combat and Support Craft in total)
Modifications: Extra bridge shield generator and Quadanium enriched hull. MISS and MIST Point defence systems. Reinforced ramming prow. General Overdrive Booster "Stardust". Computer Combat Predictor. Molecular Recycling Plant. CGTA-IFCS. Additional TIE rack (12 Squadrons). Helios Central Artificial Intelligence System (dubbed "EVA"). Backup shield generator. Reinforced Hull. Armour Bonded Stealth Coating. Rapid-Cooling Engines.

Don’t ask me why the creator of the MISS and MIST doesn’t yet have any on his ship… I think I’ll blame Vik for that one. So, 10 seems to be a decent number and, depending on the results of the field test, I can add or take away more as necessary. Ha, betcha wish First had something this awesome now! :D The only sad part about the whole thing, it’s going to be a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong wait until C1M33… Maybe I’ll just start taking potshots at Bilbringi’s shipyards to pass the time test the MCPS out, y’know, make sure they work and all.

EDIT - If you can't spot the edit, well, let's just say 1) Jer reminded me about it and 2) c'mon, it's bound to happen sooner or later and I think we can all agree that we'd rather not have the Int totaled by my... jerryactrics ;)

Also, I figured I should upgrade the starfighter capacity since Vik keeps complaining that my lust for ASDs is ruining our starfighter power :S Since I'm here, I might as well go for the gusto and look at upgrading what I can anyways right? Probably the wrong thread for it, but I guess the important bit is asking if 10 MCPS seems like a reasonable number?

EDIT 2 - Added a few extra goodies.

EDIT 3 - Removed the cloak in favor of passive stealth. Let's face it, I'd rather not ram the Int into a World Devastator and lose all those precious Stygium crystals ;) Those bloody things are expensive, the crystals I mean!

EDIT 4 - Added passive engine stealth systems.

EDIT 5 - Change the name of the AI after thinking some more about it. Yeah, it's a throwback and it's going to generate a lot of facepalm moments once I get my ship back. It was either EVA, CABAL or Ciara and seriously, the latter of those three would have been completely amusing as we could invite the real Ciara over to the Int and she could talk to herself :D CABAL would also be amusing, only because it was Kane's AI... no, not our Kane!
Last edited by Tavish McFini on 2011-03-24 19:15, edited 8 times in total.
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Re: Metal-Crystal Phase Shifter Technical Review

Post by Kane » 2011-03-02 08:26

Tavish McFini wrote:Maybe I’ll just start taking potshots at Bilbringi’s shipyards to pass the time test the MCPS out, y’know, make sure they work and all.
With your track record, you'll sure to regret that.
Tavish McFini wrote:Also, I figured I should upgrade the starfighter capacity since Vik keeps complaining that my lust for ASDs is ruining our starfighter power :S Since I'm here, I might as well go for the gusto and look at upgrading what I can anyways right? Probably the wrong thread for it, but I guess the important bit is asking if 10 MCPS seems like a reasonable number?
Well, you could always start sporting a carrier group. The upgrades look quite reasonable. I note you've left out stealth measures and on-board AI. I recommend to also add the CGTA-IFCS, due to the improved ability to spot and target stealth ships. You still don't have a shield backup system.

Ah, and on the topic of phase shifter damage, we should be able to bring them up to 10D, comparable to the heaviest turbolasers in general use. That brings them up to a 71% per cent chance to penetrate a 7D hull in one hit.
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Re: Metal-Crystal Phase Shifter Technical Review

Post by Tavish McFini » 2011-03-02 15:54

Ace wrote:With your track record, you'll sure to regret that.
Probably! But it'd still be fun all the same! :twisted:
Ace wrote:Well, you could always start sporting a carrier group. The upgrades look quite reasonable. I note you've left out stealth measures and on-board AI. I recommend to also add the CGTA-IFCS, due to the improved ability to spot and target stealth ships. You still don't have a shield backup system.
Noted and changed :D

I also noticed that the Lus carries additional TIE racks so I figured, why not?

Also, I'm not sure how our supply of Stygium is holding up and since you mentioned stealth systems, well, I think our esteemd Grand Admiral is deserving of the best credits can afford ;) Yes, I'm being presumptious, and egotistical, but might as well go for the gusto and have it toned back if rejected than to go underpowered only to find out later that I could have gone for the best!

Added the onboard AI, and even gave it a name :D And since you mentioned backup shields, again, going for the gusto! And while I'm at it, I'm probably in need of a lot of hull work (being at 50% damage before the events of C1M31 are even taken into account :S) so why not reinforce it while I'm there? Using the figure for the Lus, it came out to about 52,294 RU so I bumped to an even 53,000 RU to take into account the ramming prow ;)

Seriously, if all this doesn't keep the Int out of the repair yards for a good in game year or so, I think you need to find yourself a new Grand Admiral Bartender! ;)
Ace wrote:Ah, and on the topic of phase shifter damage, we should be able to bring them up to 10D, comparable to the heaviest turbolasers in general use. That brings them up to a 71% per cent chance to penetrate a 7D hull in one hit.
You just made my day even better. In fact, you made my 2011 even better!
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Re: Metal-Crystal Phase Shifter Technical Review

Post by Kane » 2011-03-02 16:57

Tavish McFini wrote:Also, I'm not sure how our supply of Stygium is holding up and since you mentioned stealth systems, well, I think our esteemd Grand Admiral is deserving of the best credits can afford ;) Yes, I'm being presumptious, and egotistical, but might as well go for the gusto and have it toned back if rejected than to go underpowered only to find out later that I could have gone for the best!
We don't use much, which is good since the supply is limited. Unfortunately, the larger ship you have, the more crystals you need to create a cloaking field large enough to cover it. I wouldn't recommend using the cloak more than necessary. Alternatively, you could look into passive stealth measure since they're more or less permanent features. TIE Phantoms and our other cloaked small ships don't need to worry about running out anytime soon. The only source of hibridium is smack dab in NR territory, so no help there.
Tavish McFini wrote:Seriously, if all this doesn't keep the Int out of the repair yards for a good in game year or so, I think you need to find yourself a new Grand Admiral Bartender! ;)
I'll keep that in mind....
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Re: Metal-Crystal Phase Shifter Technical Review

Post by Tom Saint » 2011-03-06 23:32

Kane wrote:3) It seems to have fired a beam rather than projecting a field, or it shouldn't have been confused for a turbolaser at all.

4) The damage seems to have been somewhat focused, given that the aft section of one of the ships - either a destroyer or a cruiser - was intact. The five decks hole suggests that the MCPS hit there. Again, it is implied that it may have been a beam or pulse rather than a field projection. This is merely an interpretation however, several sources claims it projects a field, the JAS and NEGtWT for instance.
Is it possible the MCPS weapon was refined to have two firing modes; to act in one as an energy field, and in the other to behave like a beam/pulse weapon? Likely such that the beam mode would have increased penetration and/or greater than 1% effectiveness over surface area so that the effected area would collapse faster.

Second, playing devil's advocate, what kind of counter could be made to this? This is basically a superweapon after all, doubtful any enemy will just sit back and complain about us having it. Since it only effects metal, would it be as simple as giving ships a spray coating of plastic to their outer hull?
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Re: Metal-Crystal Phase Shifter Technical Review

Post by Kane » 2011-03-07 00:07

Tom Saint wrote:Is it possible the MCPS weapon was refined to have two firing modes; to act in one as an energy field, and in the other to behave like a beam/pulse weapon? Likely such that the beam mode would have increased penetration and/or greater than 1% effectiveness over surface area so that the effected area would collapse faster.
While possible, we don't have any indication of this being the case. The 'blast radius' wording basically indicate that an 'explosion' takes place at the hit.
Tom Saint wrote:Second, playing devil's advocate, what kind of counter could be made to this? This is basically a superweapon after all, doubtful any enemy will just sit back and complain about us having it. Since it only effects metal, would it be as simple as giving ships a spray coating of plastic to their outer hull?
I don't believe that a plastic coating would protect sufficiently against the MCPS beam even if it's not affected by the breakdown effect, since the prototype has 5D hull penetration - that's how the damage stat works. More likely you'd have to make the entire hull out of nonmetal. Another way may be new energy shields with a greater range of protection, given that it bypasses 'conventional shielding'.
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