R & D Commentary

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Re: R & D Commentary

Post by Dravius Stari » 2011-04-27 13:22

Tavish McFini wrote:I really don't see how, if a laser cannon gets damaged the astromech is able to get it operational again just by tweaking something right behind the cockpit
The design of the X-wing is such that a lot of the components are actually on top.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXIqfHI0hQY

If you pause the video at 0.48 seconds, you see R2 fixing a stablizer and you can see how exposed the components are. Note also that in a battle, its entirely possible that a shot is glancing enough to burn away part of the X-wing's panel and fry some wires, but not do much else - in which case the fix would be simple, youd simply connect the wires.
jacenwesiri wrote:Realistically, inflight repairs would be limited, as the droid wouldn't really be able to reach much of the fighter itself, and even then, primarily external portions of it. What it could do is run diagnostics, and perhaps come up with workable solutions to keep the systems operating as damage is sustained. At a position like that, it's possible it could reach the drive system or perhaps the power supply, but I doubt much more than that. Still, the possibility of reaching the engines wouldn't necessarily mean the engines are laid out in such a way that the R8 unit could actually be the most effective with doing such things.
TIE's are very different in that you dont really have much capacity to fix them on the run. Partially its the nature of the design - extreme efficiency - as opposed to what the NR did, which was have fighters that could be fixed with anything and fixed fairly easily. The option of diagnosis and problem solving is much better and something R2 and even R5 units dont seem to do much. One thing i would mention though is that the port should have the capacity to eject the droids into space.
jacenwesiri wrote:Anyways, as far as the wails and such, my understanding is that with the rebel fighters and such, they actually had the droid communicating with the pilot over the comms system, though how they do it is another thing altogether. So really, perhaps mounting it internally would allow some increased protection for the droid and an easier way of communicating back and forth between the droid and the pilot.
You can speak to it, or it can actually put messages on the screens in the fighter in text. Generally you want droidspeak though, because you dont want to learn about your droids feelings, you want things like range to target. Over the comms system - its pretty simple, the droid is plugged into the fighter - easy enough to plug it into the systems.
jacenwesiri wrote:As for rear facing windows,
There are none. But, we do have cameras!
jacenwesiri wrote: Now, on to the navicomputer. I think that a navicomputer does more than handle hyperspace jump calculations, and even if it just did, over relying upon the astromech would mean that the pilot would have to know how to do manual navigation, and so by leaving a basic form, you are in essence leaving a bare minimum functionality behind in case the astromech is lost. I think that on some level, the rebels did something like that too, where you can see in Empire Strikes Back, that Luke was doing navigation with going to Dagobah, rather than telling R2-D2 to take him to Dagobah. This would probably be something along those lines, though by necessity kept to a minimum so as to not take up too much mass or power.

My thinking that the next part of a navicomputer is that it would handle some navigation functions, though that could be included with the avionics. This would be functionality like keeping track of where things are in system, and one's position within the system to prevent getting lost or off course. For a fighter pilot, I'm thinking it would be useful to be able to track positions of a lot of things, and either this or the enhanced avionics package would do this better
It is well established that pilots in fighters with astromechs, must do navigation training. They all hate it. Its tricky, its boring, and if you dont do it right your quite possibly dead. To quote Niles Crane, its 'difficult, yet boring'. Without an astromech, you still need to feed information into a navicomputer, and you need time. At the end of a battle, where pilots are fatigued, this can lead to avoidable catastrophies. We don't hear about it so much because the NR had astromechs and the Empire of course had ISDs with good systems and a large crew. Navicomputers will retain information such as star charts, gravity wells etc, but quite often you need to put a lot of info in yourself.

Why have one? simple really - as a backup in case the droid goes down, and as well because its simple and cheap to integrate into your fighter. Its just a harder way to go about things.

I seriously doubt they take much mass or power though - this is partially because theres a lot of power in a fighter, and the main draws - engines, weapons and shields wont all be in use at the same time when you use the navicomputer.

Just my two cents!
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Re: R & D Commentary

Post by Tavish McFini » 2011-04-27 19:28

Drav wrote: Generally you want droidspeak though, because you dont want to learn about your droids feelings, you want things like range to target. Over the comms system - its pretty simple, the droid is plugged into the fighter - easy enough to plug it into the systems.
Generally, yes, but when have I ever done anything "generally"? ;)

Actually, I'm of the opinion that droids aren't used/seen enough. I don't mean battle droids or TIE Droid fighters, I mean the protocol droids like C-3P0 with their comedic relief, or the astromechs with their beeping and mischief or even the lowly mouse droid and their... cleaning up the mess left behind in the Director-General's office and the remains of Lieutenant Blankly of the New Republic Intelligence.
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Re: R & D Commentary

Post by Jericho Winters » 2011-04-28 05:13

Don't go into that office >.> the trophy wall alone... *shudders*

Anyways, I have a comment on the turbolaser that chaz/seamus is proposing.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Artillery

Some interesting stuff had physical rounds^ but were somewhat innefective about particle shields.

For his proposal it might be best, as ace said these were used before in ground warfare to go with a small : http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Proton_beam_cannon

As they were also imperial wise small enough to be fitted on these: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lancet_Aerial_Artillery

But I'd at least hope his cannon was the same setup with repulsor drives- as these so they got around easier or classed as :
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mobile_artillery

There were many types of mobile artillery ;) and artillery in general just no players seem to use them :(.
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Re: R & D Commentary

Post by Dravius Stari » 2011-04-28 10:58

I just want to see that motorised...we dont have jeeps to tow it!
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Re: R & D Commentary

Post by Tavish McFini » 2011-04-28 16:36

Drav wrote:I just want to see that motorised...we dont have jeeps to tow it!
Sure we do. I imagine a ULAV could/would have a tow hitch.

I think Seamus intended the rounds to still be actual energy based rounds. Also, his defintion of "Heavy Turbolaser" is exactly what's mounted on the AT-AT Mk II which... I'm guessing isn't the same as a Heavy Turbolaser found on, say, an ISD.
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Re: R & D Commentary

Post by Jericho Winters » 2011-04-28 18:53

well the mobile arty gets dropped by a sentinel landing craft, but I presume we would have something to tow. I mean, in my mind I guess artillery in sw is more like the arty of vietnam- needing air drops to get it where it needs to go, and towed after that. Otherwise it's just drop and forget X-x.
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Re: R & D Commentary

Post by Kane » 2011-04-28 20:56

Interesting that you would say that, Jericho. You saw the incomplete list at WP.

The Imperial Army has no towed guns, only self-propelled artillery. The Lancet, the SPMA, the SPHA, the AT-AP, the AT-IC, the Shock Cannon, the HAP, the MAP, the MAS-2xB to name the most prominent ones. Not a single towed unit.

The rebels at Hoth used some light towed units: the 1.4 FD P-Tower laser cannon and the DF.9 anti-infantry battery.
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Re: R & D Commentary

Post by Jericho Winters » 2011-04-29 03:59

Yeah, WP is never really complete per se >.>.

Those were the rebel types I was vaguely remembering from the games and comics, ace but I had no clue what they were actually called. Thanks for the info :).

As far as towed towards self-propelled,t I imagine there would be a tradeoff for tow/unmovable vs. mobile type, but overall I can only think untowed stuff would be size wise smaller and the mobile types- just mobile. ?_?

What's your take on things?

I'm also kinda wondering though what the supercannon that Iraq was building back in the 90's equivalent would be like in sw. only Problem was it was immobile and untargetable only good thing it was estimated when complete to launch a projectile 600 miles. Kind of makes me wonder what that would be in sort of an upgraded howitzer thing. X-x.
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Re: R & D Commentary

Post by Kane » 2011-04-29 12:35

Jericho Winters wrote:As far as towed towards self-propelled,t I imagine there would be a tradeoff for tow/unmovable vs. mobile type, but overall I can only think untowed stuff would be size wise smaller and the mobile types- just mobile. ?_?

What's your take on things?
Towed is lighter and cheaper and are still in use today: An example.

All heavy guns are self-propelled by now. The main reason being so they can avoid counterbattery fire, but also so they can move along with the rest of the army. There is, of course, always fixed artillery installations too. Some of them are semi-permanent, like those on prefab bases, and various emplacements (like in Empire At War).
Jericho Winters wrote:I'm also kinda wondering though what the supercannon that Iraq was building back in the 90's equivalent would be like in sw. only Problem was it was immobile and untargetable only good thing it was estimated when complete to launch a projectile 600 miles. Kind of makes me wonder what that would be in sort of an upgraded howitzer thing. X-x.
Pretty useless for us is what I would call it. But this one is interesting. Modern arty is getting lighter and more mobile with increasing ranges and the same firepower.
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Re: R & D Commentary

Post by Tavish McFini » 2011-04-29 19:09

Jer wrote:I'm also kinda wondering though what the supercannon that Iraq was building back in the 90's equivalent would be like in sw.
I think it would be the same as this. Albeit, not built on a world per se, too limiting ;)

Palpy had to have been all talk when that gun was built though... Destroying a planet anywhere in the galaxy, okay, I can buy that (grudgingly) but a city or landmass? Dunno how one would hit the "dark side of the moon" if they're facing its front, unless the projectile can use the gravitational forces of other masses to change its trajectory and allow it to curve around, doing a 180 and then slam into the back of a world? Now that would require some crazy math to work out!!!

EDIT - I recall reading somewhere they were making artillery shells that were able to adjust their course midflight, enabling them to still hit the intended target despite the gun's aim being off. Shells have the ability to do so because of mechanical components and whatnot but would there be a way to do the same idea with the energy rounds our artillery uses? I'm guessing no, but I figured I'd just make sure.
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Re: R & D Commentary

Post by Spyker Katarn » 2011-04-29 20:49

Tavish McFini wrote:I recall reading somewhere they were making artillery shells that were able to adjust their course midflight, enabling them to still hit the intended target despite the gun's aim being off. Shells have the ability to do so because of mechanical components and whatnot but would there be a way to do the same idea with the energy rounds our artillery uses? I'm guessing no, but I figured I'd just make sure.
You're thinking of the M982 Excalibur or XM395 PGMM rounds. I would probably say it's not possible to do this with energy-based weapons since there's no onboard guidance systems, but it might be possible with plasma-based rounds (possibly through manipulation of magnetic fields?). I'm not a physicist, though, so I'm not completely sure on that latter one.
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Re: R & D Commentary

Post by Seamus » 2011-04-30 07:57

Well our Anti Tank weapons consist of Tanks, and shoulder fire missile launchers. Nothing really made for taking out T4's, or T3's even. Yeah our tanks can handle them, but our Infantry on the other hand might have a bit of trouble when faced against a group of them.....yeah you could use it as artillery, but....I'd rather use something else, the range on it wouldn't be that great compared to say...a SMPA or even a MAP. I never intended it to be an artillery weapon.

it's really just something to take out tanks before they can get to us, and I also took the Heavy Turbo laser, and put on a Mass Driver, since the heavier tanks are unshielded. The T1's and T2's would be easy because the E-WEBs would drop the shields, and these would nail them before they got their Sheilds back up.

Also, in the argument about selfpropelled, If you were a Captian, and you had 3 tanks. I wouldn't want those tanks sitting in a defensive posture, all through the battle. See what I'm saying? Just like with my newest project, I'd want all my Anti-Aircraft, protecting my armor and Infantry. instead of just sitting at the base, rusting.
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Re: R & D Commentary

Post by Tavish McFini » 2011-05-03 01:26

* Chaz is still wondering why we don't have rancors with GPML's strapped to their backs.
So, why don't we strap GPMLs on Rancors? We took Dathomir right? I'm sure the Nightsisters would appreciate the extra firepower offered by upgrading their mounts ;)
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Re: R & D Commentary

Post by Jericho Winters » 2011-05-03 01:28

Hey... we said in chat that jace would have to brainwash all the witchies first to get that to happen! >.> He is, along with crystala is in charge of the brainwashing stuff.

*ducks out of the thread and runs as fast as internetly possible as he's determined to resist posting on this subject again ;)*
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Re: R & D Commentary

Post by Tavish McFini » 2011-05-06 16:26

Thinking about this when I was typing up the example in Jace's TIE Avenger Mk IV... 0.5x hyperdrives are faster than 1x hyperdrives right? (duh Fini, look at the Falcon)

Okay, so, on that same line of thinking, here's my question, for the same distance traveled, does a 0.5x hyperdrive (which will arrive at point y from point x twice as quickly) use the same amount of fuel as a 1x hyperdrive?

If you're wondering where I'm going with this, thinking about the interceptor concept and going through hyperspace to intercept a group of enemy bombers, I'm wondering if upgrading the hyperdrive from a 2x to a 1x or even a 0.5x wouldn't also increase its operational range and capacity to intercept enemy fighters (or shuttles, bombers or small, lightly guarded convoys) from a much longer range?
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Re: R & D Commentary

Post by Neil Astor » 2011-05-06 19:17

This may just be me being stupid, but I can't find the TIE Protector in the DB. Are the tech specs anywhere to be found?
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Re: R & D Commentary

Post by Tavish McFini » 2011-05-06 19:55

You sure you were thinking of the TIE "Protector"? Off the top of my head, I don't think the "Protector" exists... There's Fighter, Interceptor, Defender, Avenger, Advanced, Interdictor, Electronic Warfare, Vanguard, Scout, Bomber, Raptor, Paladin, Heavy Interceptor... That's just off the top of my head. Any of those ringing a bell perhaps?
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Re: R & D Commentary

Post by Neil Astor » 2011-05-06 20:17

Hmm, no. Although it might be the Paladin. I heard the term in your Defender Mk III thread.
Purpose: The TIE Protector was a major improvement over the TIE Defender and with further advances in technology, including concepts from the TIE Interceptor Mk III and the New Republic's B-Wing, a new update to the TIE Protector will create the most up-to-date and powerful starfighter in the known galaxy.
you said the TIE Protector so I was a bit confused because I couldn't find one.
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Re: R & D Commentary

Post by Jericho Winters » 2011-05-06 20:49

Regarding- TIE Advanced Mk IV

"incorporated its astromech droid, an Incom standard feature, into its frame"- this is pretty much a cutout of the X-83 Twintail which shows where the designs of astromechs were going for the most part- keeping them within fighters themselves. While it also says, " was hardwired into the ship, turning it into more of an extension of the fighter's main computer."

In short- having an integrated astromech brain would be a boon for the small fighter if you keep the hyperdrive, but since it's less in length then the Republic X-wings a full 'plug-in' variety astro might be making it more unwieldy as the thick of things, besides the weak point the astromech port would create in the armor.

From my understanding most of the time, if tie pilots are actually needing repairs- it's a return to carrier situation. Or they're so damaged off the edge of the battle, they should eject, or try to go EVA to conduct those repairs themselves.

It might be a possible get the best of both worlds, while the tradeoff would be foregoing the in-flight repairs. In short- even if it adds to initial cost- I'd suggest going with the integrated droid brain to begin with.
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Re: R & D Commentary

Post by Tavish McFini » 2011-05-06 21:03

OHHHH!!! That! <-- Linky!

It's the TIE Defender Mk II Ace created waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back when... like... ... :shock: Over a decade ago! That or on New Years day of 2005... Not sure which, but I'm sure I was an R&D mod by then so I would have posted something.

It's the precursor to the Mk III TIE Defender (aka, TIE Paladin), as you can see. I'm afraid what there is what's there for stats. That's why I'm suspecting it was done in 2001 versus 2005 since I don't think the board had the sort of hard stats we have today... Just a guess ;)

@ Jer - Yeah, you are right. Looking back, I think, at the time, it made sense to use the astromech since the Rebels used their X-Wings on long range type missions and didn't really have carriers to return to easily. How many X-Wing novels have they written where the squadron has operated long distances where the need for in-flight repairs would be useful.

Now, if we took a page out of their book and designed a TIE to perform a similar function, long range arse-kickage without the need for large, expensive ships and carriers that might be detected easier than a handful of small snubfighters... Might be worth looking into, maybe not with the TIE Avenger IV but for another TIE project? After all, it'll give our pilots some interesting RP potential ;) Like long range escort... A squad of TIEs helping insert a few shuttles into a facility or something. I dunno, I'm probably just rambling at this point but I'm finding there is some merit to having such a wide swathe of characters. Let's me see things from different PoVs.
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